created : about 5 years ago

Skorne errata talk with Mr soles

Tags : warmachine mk3 skorne

Thumb skorne army

Morning everyone !!

Let start the day with a forum QA about the upcoming skorne change with Mr Soles himself (lead design).
If you are out of the loop, the skorne faction is a fail in MK3 , PP confirmed it and a patch is incoming (end of december i think)

Lot of good thing but the most juicy part is the Gargantua collossal money is on grevious wound immunity

Even you are not a warmachine player, you can see how a game dev answer interact with the community it's super interesting

Ok... I've got a few minutes. Lets talk about the Skorne. What do you all want to know?

Just to give you guys a quick over view we have been sorting through a mountain of feedback and personal observations relating to the Skorne for weeks now. We made some first tier changes to key elements of the Faction, tested those, than began a more comprehensive overview of every model. That is where we are now. We have a lot of play testing to get through but things are looking solid. Any thing more specific you'd like to know...?

Originally Posted by Dusk1983 View Post
I have nothing specific myself, but I'd like to thank you for engaging directly with us and letting us know where the testing process is at. It is very much appreciated.

PPS_MrSoles : No problem. I'm sorry I do not get the chance to do so more often. Things are really busy at the moment and I tend to be buried too much of the time.

I'd really like to know what the intended "playstyle," if there is such a thing, was behind the current edition. It might help understanding list building and hidden gems.
I'm not good at these sort of things, though I'll keep my eye here. Much better at understanding what IS.

Thanks for doing this, again, it really means a lot!

PPS_MrSoles : We went back back to the drawing board at the start of our review process and tried to identify both the play style and themes of the Skorne in a way that would that would be meaningful to evaluate both where the Skorne are and as a a guiding light going forward. We ended up with a primarily melee force (with some solid auxiliary ranged capabilities) that specialize in weathering the storm before counter punching. The Skorne are a disciplined and professional force backed by a menagerie of exotic warbeasts that are bred/engineered for a variety of roles on the battlefield. The Skorne also possess their own brand of powerful magic that excels at reinforcing the strength and vitality of their armies while sucking the life from their enemies.
That is what we are presently working from.

Hey Jason! Thanks for swinging by, I really appreciate it. So lets talk Rhidodon. Lay it on me.
Or are you looking for more generalized questions?

PPS_MrSoles : Specific is fine. You guys have been waiting for awhile. I want to stress though that these changes are in play test and what I tell to you now is subject to change.
For the Rhinodon, we are testing it with STR 11, base ARM 18, and a Tail melee RNG of 2 with Crit Knockdown.

Xerxis 2 was one of my favorite warlocks in mk2, what kind of changes, if any, are being considered for the errata?

PPS_MrSoles : One. Simple. Little. Change.
Mobility to Battle Host.
"Warbeasts in the spellcaster’s battlegroup beginning their activations in its control range gain +2˝ movement when advancing as part of their Normal Movement. The spellcaster gains +2 ARM while one or more warbeasts in its battlegroup are within 3˝ of it."
That's the plan for now.

How extensive are the changes we should expect come the January errata? Like just small point cost things or more dramatic mk2-mk3 changes? Can we expect changes on 10%, 30% or 50% of the faction ?

PPS_MrSoles : I think the changes are pretty significant overall. Some models are presently slated for minor tweaks, some are getting major changes, and some none at all. We are looking first at what we feel the Faction really needs to play the way we believe it should, then we are making changes geared to making it more fun to play. That is where we are now. Talking raw percentages is hard, but I think over the half the models in the Faction are presently being tested with some sort of tweak.

Jason, what's the cost for Battle Host? And is it an upkeep?

Battle Host 2 Self Ctrl – UP No

What sort of changes are you looking at for cataphracts?

PPS_MrSoles : Across the board they picked up Tough. The Cetrati gain Set Defense. The Arcuarii traded CRA for Harpoon Weapon Master.The Incindus is being tested with POW 13. Point costs are being reevaluated so I won't comment there.

PPS_MrSoles :
I already mentioned Xerxis 2.

Xekaar is a tough one for us to change because he is the battle box caster, and with that in mind we have not done much to him. I would not expect much to change on him.

Makeda 1 got a significant overhaul and I she still needs a lot of testing so I don't want to say much. I will say Subjugation of the Will just became Field Marshal [Shield Guard].

Have you ever considered pain response as a buff for certain beasts? It seems pretty thematic for a torture based army.

PPS_MrSoles :
For various reasons that special rule may be lackluster in Skorne going forward... But I agree it is thematically appropriate.

Wow, thanks for popping in! I'm excited to hear about Xerxis2, that seems a lot better.

Is your priority Skorne's internal balance, or our balance with respect to other factions? Ideally you'd like to do both, but which one is your priority?
The simple answer is both. We want a solid Faction that can perform, but we also want something that is fun and satisfying to play.

Also, Jason, are you looking at any specific changes to swordsman or other melee units to differentiate them? (specifically nihilators and swordsman who are both really geared towards lawnmowering infantry?)

PPS_MrSoles :
Yes we are. At the moment we are testing them with base MAT 7 and with Power Swell on the command attachment in place of Show of Force. We are feeling pretty good about those changes.

1) Jason, many thanks for stepping foot into the lion's den and answering our questions directly.

2) I'd like to know what the plan is for Praetorians. They seem to be all over the place in terms of points costs, combat ability and usefulness. In mk2 they were pretty clearly defined as medium infantry - solid defensive stats, middling combat prowess and moderate points costs. They didn't hit like KE or Stormblades (heavy infantry) and they didn't dodge like Kayazi (light infantry) but they were very middle of the road. Is there anything being done to define a role for our middle children?

3) non titan heavies. What happened to the Archidon and Rhinodon? And for that matter, the Sentinel (the Soldier is pretty bomb diggity right now). There have been a lot of budget heavy conversations lately, and honestly the idea doesn't really work for Hordes. What is being done to make sure that the -dons have places in the faction where they can make some money? And having good animi isn't the answer here, although it's a step in the right direction. They need to have some merit on their own rather than being "sprint/Spiny Growth on a stick".

PPS_MrSoles :
1) No problem! Thanks for having me!

2) We are taking steps to make sure the Praetorians each have a defined an interesting role. Some of them are pretty solidly there. Others need a boost. In addition to the changes I mentioned to the Swordsmen we may have another surprise or two.

3) I pretty much agree with your assessment. What happened is they did not work and they were over costed for what they provided. Sometimes it takes a little distance to see where you are going astray and the Mk III/Eggroll process was break neck and unrelenting. In hindsight we definitely see some room for improvement...

Curious what you guys are thinking for the Archidon. I have enjoyed pulling him back out for my Zaadesh 2 lists but outside of that he has been a big point sink for an animus and a single attack (charge, animus, boost for crit)

PPS_MrSoles :
Presently we are thinking it goes to STR 10, picks up Long Leash, and may be goes down to Cost 10. It is still in play test though and could continue to evolve. We like the idea of this thing ranging ahead and getting the most out of Sprint as it picks off targets ahead of the main army. Now we need to see how the concept plays out in our tests.

Any points cost adjustments? Maybe to beasts?

PPS_MrSoles :
Yes. Certainly.

Sorry if I am spamming questions, and feel happy to ignore them, I just think conversations like this are super fun/enlightening. In your earlier comment, you mentioned the idea of counter punch being a main Skorne theme. Is there a proposed change that you think exemplifies this really well?

PPS_MrSoles :
It is more like a guiding light at the moment. Something we are keeping in mind. The Skorne may not always get the alpha strike, but they should be able to deliver a formidable counter strike. One step in that direction is restoring the Krea's ARM bonus to help the Skorne weather shooting before delivering their melee forces to the enemy lines.

Lord Assasin morghoul. Any changes for him? To make him better at his namesake?

PPS_MrSoles :
We just made some changes to him that I am concerned may have throttled him beyond balanced and we have not tested him yet, so I won't give you too much here. One change that I think is going to stick though is FURY 6.

Jason, what does "disciplined and professional" mean in terms of play style? I've seen this description before, but I still don't know how that compares to say a Trollbloods or Protectorate army with a similar Melee, defensive play style. How should a Skorne army distinguish itself?
I have to run soon guys... I am going to be late for dinner and I am making the dinner.

PPS_MrSoles :
With regards to "disciplined and professional", I think we want to see an army with some internal synergy that moves well together. I am thinking in terms of the units. We want to see a well oiled machine with a lot of answers and a good one-two punch. I think having dedicated defensive units that can help deliver the strong melee components of the army is one shade of this. I think also seeing a dedicated warrior class fell like a dedicated warrior class compared to the offerings of the other Factions in the game is another.

All that said this piece can be debated at length. "Is this enough here?", "What does that imply there?" We are thinking about it and it is helping to guide our ongoing development.

I'd definitely be interested to hear if the bugs (Sentinels, Soldiers, and the warbeast pack) got any major changes.

PPS_MrSoles :
We are testing the Soldier at 16 points. The Sentinel got some substantial changes but I want some more testing on it before we discuss it. Lets see what sticks...

Jason thanks for the response! How about the Cyclops Raider? Any developments?

PPS_MrSoles :
I don't think the Cyclops Raider model itself has changed much.

What're the plans for the Ancestral Guardians. As one of the High Point Models in MKI, I was a little disappointed to see them sidelined in MKII, and would love to see them come back.

PPS_MrSoles :
Additionally, is the faction still going to be able to kill each other for souls? it seems... non-Hoskune.
We are still working through all the implications of the soul mechanics...

That said the Ancestral Guardian itself is going to get back a version of Resonance for the Immortals. Other than that not much has changed. He is still pretty damn solid for a 5 point solo. Hakaar may end up a little fightier...

New question:

Any bad news you might want to break to us gently?

PPS_MrSoles :
Only one thing comes to mind. We bumped the Titan Gladiator up a point to 15.

This is all so juicy.

Just had a thought if the Hydra was getting re-assessed at all?

PPS_MrSoles :
Not on its own, but stay tuned for a change to gargantuans and colossals.

Does this open the way for stronger magic-based solos or units? For example, the Bloodrunners currently have Apparition, which could be attributed to Magic. Maybe more abilities along the lines of that, Concealment, Stealth, Dark Shroud, etc? Or will Magic still be relegated to Warlocks and support solos (e.g. Willbreaker, Extoller).

PS - Thank you for the feedback!

PPS_MrSoles :
I think so. Definitely. I have wanted to see a three model mortitheurge combat unit for a few years now... Someday!

One of the models I'm most curious about hearing about is the Aradus Sentinel. It's rise in MKII was as epic as its fall in MKIII. Is it being looked at for any adjustments? I'd also like to know if Ancestral Guardians and Immortals are getting any adjustments. I've personally modded a handful of AGs into different poses, and I love to see them on the table.

PPS_MrSoles :
Will Shick loves his Immortals. Like a lot. I think by the time they leave play test they will be in solid shape. And I already mentioned the change to the Ancestral Guardian.

What, if anything, in the faction will not be getting changed or will only be receiving very minor adjustments?

PPS_MrSoles :
A lot of models are only getting minor changes. Really too many to list. Our initial round of changes resulted in few actual model changes but the ones we did make were substantial. After that "what do we have to do" pass we went back for a "what can we do" pass.

Reptile Hounds, are we possibly going to see them at 3 points for one hound? Currently Skorne has no in-faction options that are 2 points or less unlike other factions.

PPS_MrSoles :

Thank you again for taking this time with the community
You are more than welcome. I am happy with the way this process is shaping up and I wanted to let you guys know the depth of the changes you can expect.

PPS_MrSoles :
With that it is time I head out. I may stop back in tomorrow if I have the chance, but it is going to be a busy day.